And when in 2015 you're NOT paying 3x as much and the sky hasn't fallen, we'll remind you of this particular comment.

Where are you getting this figure? I'd say the price would have continue to rise without the ACA. You do realize that as part of this bill, the ins companies have to refund money to the subscribers if they do not spend at least 85 % of the money on actual healthcare. As it stands now, they spend 30% of the premiums on 'administrative' costs, which include huge bonuses. Would you rather get a refund, or contribute to a bonus?

GDP plunges to 1.9%. -- http://www.bea.gov/newsreleases/national/gdp/gdpnewsrelease.htm

Amen to that John Q.!!!!! To take from someone else because you are too lazy to work for it yourself, is NOT the American way!!!! It is one thing to give to the needy, however it is another to take from the hard working to give to the lazy leaches of present day society!!!! But you must keep in mind that this has nothing to do with healthcare and everything to do with power!!

The Christian responsibility to take care of your own needs. Hmm...it's been a little while since I've read my bible, but I remember Jesus speaking in a passage or two about feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, and other crazy, Leftard "ideas".

I'm afraid these comments are way off target. Prior to the birth and ministry of Christ there were no hospitals, orphanages, hospices, or charitable organizations. Christ posed the question, "Am I my brother's keeper?"

The Christian faith does not prosletize, take care of me first. Where you would get that is from a lack of Christian upbringing.

The Gospel is fiiled with parables of selfless acts to help strangers.

So no it is not about me first. It is not about, "I got mine, go get yours."

You guys are the ones to want to bring Christ into this discussion. This is undoubtedly part of the ignorance phony "righteous right", you know the Tea Partyers who are spouting this pseudo-religious rhetoric.

If you want to call yourselves Christian, you'll need to recognize the need to help others less fortunate than you.

The physical and mentally disabled will be with us always. No one begrudges them health-care, indeed most already have it. However, the author suggested that it's this nation's 'Christian responsibility,' for non Christians too I presume, to care for all people, even those who choose not to support themselves, but burden others with their needs. I shouldn't have to support those who chose not to support themselves. Everyone to the best of their ability has a strict responsibility to take care of their own needs, including health care. Also, Obamacare includes procedures many people, including Christians, find very distasteful, like the extermination of their unwanted offspring. Obama is a champion of choice, but very selective choice.

I read an article saying becaUSe of religious perpouses Musims will not have to pay for this. True or false=another way to jizra tax infides???????????

I believe someone missed some important parts of Christianity.

1 John 3:17 But if someone who is supposed to be a Christian has money enough to live well, and sees a brother in need, and won't help him--how can God's love be within him ?

Prov. 14:31 Anyone who oppresses the poor is insulting God who made them. To help the poor is to honor God.

Prov. 21:13 He who shuts his ears to the cries of the poor will be ignored in his own time of need.

Prov. 28:27 If you give to the poor, your needs will be supplied! But a curse upon those who close their eyes to poverty.

Prov. 22:9 Happy is the generous man, the one who feeds the poor.

1 Tim. 6:18 Tell them to use their money to do good. They should be rich in good works and should give happily to those in need, always being ready to share with others whatever God has given them.

Luke 3:11 "If you have two coats," he replied, "give one to the poor. If you have extra food, give it away to those who are hungry."

Lev. 19:18 Don't seek vengeance. Don't bear a grudge; but love your neighbor as yourself, for I am Jehovah.

1 Cor 10:24 Let no man seek his own, but every man another's good.

Matthew 5:42 Give to the one who begs from you, and do not refuse the one who would borrow from you.

Romans 15:1 We who are strong have an obligation to bear with the failings of the weak, and not to please ourselves.

Philippians 2:4 Let each of you look not only to his own interests, but also to the interests of others.

The message here is really very simple: help the needy. It's not hard to understand; it's just hard to do.
And the message is continuous. It's in the Torah; it's in the Prophets and Psalms; it's in the Gospels; it's in the Epistles. How many churches emphasize serving the poor as much as the Bible itself does? Would the world look the way it does if all believers followed these commands?

Another thing to note about these verses is the lack of caveats-- the lack of excuses. None of them add "...once a year" or "...when you feel you can" or "...if they're moral" or "...unless they're black" or "...if they speak English". We have plenty of reasons (I'm sure you can think of a dozen) why we can't go out and feed the hungry, why we have to turn away the needy borrower-- and God help us, how many of us have sold so much as a lawnmower in order to have money to give away? But all those reasons belong to our sinful human nature, not to God. God just wants those needy people helped.

If you wanted to be a Biblical one-issue voter, you'd do well to make that one issue serving the poor.

Lou its the liberal/socialist way!!! Attack your enemies even if it must be done with lies. Also remember that the left has the state run media on its side.................

Umm, so what exactly is the alternative that Republicans are offering? I've yet to see anything. I'm quite tired of hearing how they're so opposed to it, yet put nothing on the table. I can only conclude they feel the current 'system' is just fine and dandy. Listen, is this bill perfect? No. Is it a good start? Yes. The current system simply cannot continue; it's immoral, unsustainable, and is harmful to businesses, large and small (except insurance companies). Give it chance. Doing nothing is not an option.

That's not true. Some proponents have gone as far to say that the ACA is not perfect (which I agree...it's a start) but to say that it has not addressed the cost of Healthcare is preposterous. The "tax" that everyone is arguing over is exactly what will factor into the cost. Keeping the premiums from going up and regulating the insurance companies -- which have gotten completely out of hand -- is part of the ACA. Your mention of America becoming Greece is typical GOP "the sky is falling" doomspeak. And you really went so far as to mention Death Panels? Didn't you get the memo that the death panels were a figment of Sarah Palin's vivid imagination? You better get someone at ATRO on the phone to check your facts.

I think what Phyllis brings up leads to the question that what exactly IS the GOP plan? It's not enough to want "Obamacare" to be repealed. What is their idea? They haven't stated what they plan to do if and when they repeal the ACA. All they can seem to agree on is that they don't want anything that was created by President Obama and the Democrats to succeed. And THAT is the problem with the GOP right now. It's more about making sure the other guys fail rather than making sure the country as a whole succeeds. Is that REALLY the party we want in power?

Yes Lou that is exactly what Republican economist Tyler Crowen, wrote when he argued for the rejection of what he calls “health-care egalitarianism.” This is his statement not mine” We need to accept the principle that sometimes poor people will die just because they are poor.” He is not the only Republican to argue this. I also reject the idea that just because you are poor you must be lazy.

Marc: Where in the ACA does it say insurance premiums cannot go up?

Mike: The ACA doesn't state specifically that premiums cannot go up. But common sense and a basic understanding of how economics works is that when you open up the number of people who pay into insurance (adding in 50 million currently uninsured people will do wonders to that) brings down premiums. The main reason premiums keep going up are because so many people are choosing to go without insurance, therefore raising the costs for people who have it because we need to cover them.

Well, Marc, that's speculation. I can just as easily see that many of the people added to the insurance pool will be considered of much higher health risk to insure because of poor lifestyles. And since insurers tend to avoid that risk by spreading the higher anticipated costs across a broader insured base, they will increase rates for everyone in the pool.

Given the $1.76 trillion CBO cost estimate (which could end up being much higher if Congress does not follow through with assumed actions that framed the current CBO estimate) this bill will not be a good thing for the working middle class. The original CBO estimate was $970 billion, by the way.

Healthcare reform with no control or reform of costs is no reform at all for those of us already paying our way in taxes and premiums.

I disagree. The Founding Fathers that every wannabe pundit has on supernatural speed dial stated quite clearly in the Declaration of Independence that life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness are inalienable rights, which is a fancy way of saying that we're entitled to them.

If personal responsibility is what you're after, then the ACA is the perfect plan for you. Right now, there are millions and millions of Americans who don't take personal responsibility for their healthcare. When they get sick or injured -- which happens to everybody sooner or later -- guess who ends up paying for their visit to the ER for treatment? That's right, we do - the responsible, insured, taxpaying middle class. With the ACA, we don't have to pay for those who are too irresponsible to insure themselves. Listen, this plan was first drawn up by the Heritage Foundation - it's as conservative and as free-market as it gets; stop listening to the knee-jerk, "we hate it because Obama is President" talking heads and understand: if you are a conservative Republican, the ACA originated with the people you support.

Harry since you are such a champion of personal responsibility what is your answer to the people that have the means to pay for health care but choose not to, and ultimately end going to the emergency room on your dime. The ACA addresses this issue. What is your solution- let them bleed out in the parking lot?

Republ-i-can-s have ideas. Cut Cap and balance. There are things Republ-i-can-s would like to do but Democratic Harry Reid would not allow to bring up in Senate=buying competitively across state lines and capping frivalist lawyer suits. Do you except rich trial unionist to vote for that???????????????

Well, so what have the republicans done for job creation? All they've done is focus on making abortion illegal, with a great deal of success too. Too bad they didn't use that discipline to create some jobs eh? Their solution to everything is"'tax cut!"
No one is claiming the ACA is perfect; it isn't. But doing nothing and allowing the situation to spiral further out of control isn't a good idea either. Perhaps another consequence of the ACA might be that some people might actually leave jobs and start their own businesses since they may not be chained to a job because of the health insurance. Maybe more women can stay home with the kids; I've seen many women work full time simply b/c their husbands were self employed and didn't have access to affordable health insurance. Isn't that where republicans think women should be anyway? Something to think about.

It amazes me how SCOTUS read a 2471 page bill of legal language and 'thou shalts' in the time they did. 15% of the US economy under govt control should be a red alarm. Greece and Spain is one thing...but now the decision by the court makes us a ruled people now. We are ruled.

I'm going back to watching Fox News for awhile; I'm really enjoying the foot-stomping tantrums and watching their heads explode. Nighty-nite. :)

So what was more INTRUSIVE in American lives then 10 plus years of war that was based on one Republican lie after another. I think this raised a very serious human concern. You are right - it all begins with us!

Very well said Teri B!!! Bringing Truth To Stupid, I like how you pick and choose the bible verses that suite your point of view. How about God helps those who help themselves?
First off, if you or any of your liberal friends really think that someone on the right would not help the poor or needy, you are truly misguided!!! If you read Teri B's above post, he sums it up pretty well. His points are very clear and to the point!!! We The People are endowed by our Creator!! Not our socialist czar in the Peoples House! Our rights are not to be infringed upon! Maybe you should read the Constitution as it is written, not as the state run media tells you. As far as two wars, I agree with you 100%, so maybe instead of attacking each other, we should find common ground and move forward, this discussion is going nowhere at the moment. The government and media have us so divided that they are able to push through legislation because we are busy fighting each other and not paying attention to the scum in DC who continue to take away our rights each and every day.
HMS and the TSA under Bush, need to go!! God Bless the USA!!!

Harry,

I didn't "pick and choose" anything. I agree that people should attempt try to help themselves. But the Bible does NOT say that you should ignore those who do not say. Please point me to a verse that says "Help the poor, as long as you think they are really poor and aren't jsut lazy". You should try and do the best you can and work hard at what you are able, and you should give freely to those that do not have.

Only someone with a "screw you, got mine" attitude would look at the two types of verses, both the "Help the poor" and the "Help yourself" and decide that one invalidates the other. It is every Christians responsibility to try and "Help themselves" but it also every Christian's responsibility to try and give and sacrifice to help others. But I digress, I am used to the hypocrisy of so called Christians and their selfish desires to cling to the parts of the Bible that they want to follow, and ignore the parts that are inconvenient to them.

I'm not saying that individuals would not help the poor, but it's obvious that enough people are not helping them or else there wouldn't be this problem would it? If all of the so called Christians did as their Bible instructed, then we wouldn't need Obamacare. You have no one to blame for it's need but yourself and your brethren who selfishly looked to their own good and not their neighbors as instructed by your religion.

David,
The point continues to be that government is not the answer to all the worlds problems. I pay enough taxes as it is, and I do have healthcare through my employer. The fact someone else does not, is not my problem, nor is it my responsibility. So in reality how much does that $5 prescription really cost you after you pay the government your taxes?
Taking money from me so someone else can get "free" healthcare on top of their Section 8 home, medical assistance, food stamps, cell phone, and internet, just because I work hard to get them on my own is not what this country is about. At least until this socialist was put in the white house. Since he's been in office I've been asked to bail out the banks, bail out the car companies, now pay for their healthcare. Explain to me when the hard working people of this country get a break from the leaches who choose not to work and continue to take from us that do? You must remember its NOT the governments money, its the peoples money!

Harry
I agree with your point of the government bailing out the banks and letting home owners go to the wall, but not everyone has a job who wants one. Should these unemployed have to die for lack of funds? I'm reliably informed that approx. 30,000 of your fellow citizens die each year because they can't afford to pay for health care, yet 3,000 died in the Twin Towers and your government went to war over it. (Unfortunately with the wrong country) Why should your employer be stuck with providing your health care? It must be a BIG disincentive for anyone thinking of starting a new business and employing people. I am against all wars but my taxes are still used to pay for them. If I don't own a car should my taxes be used for road upkeep? Should I be required to die because I can't afford thousands of dollars a month for expensive pharmaceuticals?

Regards David Miller

Sydney Australia

Excellent comment Dan Soderberg! Apparently in their world, everything is a one size fits all; you are either lazy and irresponsible, or you're a god-fearing good 'merican. Too bad everyone doesn't fit neatly into that huh?
BTW, naysayers, you do realize this whole debate is moot now, don't you?

I'd be more concerned with an employer turning people loose into the system for $2000 instead of paying for both my healthcare insurance premium and the administrative overlay to manage it. I imagine a lot of employers, who do not have to compete intensely for good employees - like now, when the economy remains in the crapper, deciding it's not worth the cost to offer healthcare coverage.

Personally, I can't figure out how you call it a "tax", when in reality it is simply a fine for not doing something the Government wants you to do ... like paying taxes. That's a FINE, not a tax.

Can anyone describe a situation where you pay a "tax" for not doing something?

This twisted logic allowed CSCJ Roberts to write his legacy instead of addressing the true basis of the ACA. You MUST participate or you are FINED ... not "taxed"!

Mike, we have that situation quite a bit. They're called tax breaks. If I have kids, I have to pay less taxes than if I don't. By your logic, it sounds like the government is fining me for not having kids.

Matt: You get a TAX CREDIT for having children. If you end up paying a "tax" for NOT HAVING children, then you fall under the ACA "tax" anaogy I used.

Yea that’s right, liberals bringing Jesus into the conversation. Get used to it because I don’t see Republicans out there feeding the hungry.

And by the way, I fully support the ACA and I am one of the very fortunate in this country as I am over insured and hopefully will never need this provision. If I pay more to keep a sick child alive so be it. I’ll eat out once a month less, big deal!

Is BHO trying to gain the whole world for a Muslim Brotherhood and servitude for infidels??? Spend Spend Spend Waste Waste Waste Tax Tax Tax Taxxxxxxxxxxxx. Had enough yet???????????

I am sorry you feel this way. Jesus would not expect governments to take care of us He expects you and me to take care of each other. It is only because we failed in our Christian Responsibilities that room was made for government to step in and do it for us. You are right, not everyone agrees we are our brothers keepers, but it seems we can not agree on anything these days.

Well, Mike, using your definition of the situation, we should never attempt any improvement since it will always come down to passing laws via the Congress. Once again - we say this time after time after time, but it just keeps getting drowned out by the Right Wing fright machine -- the Affordable Care Act is NOT "government run healthcare." It IS a law that forces irresponsible people who are draining the system by using hospitals and ERs as their personal doctor's office to get insurance, get covered, and quit relying on responsible, taxpaying middle class Americans to foot the bill. That should be a concept that anybody - left, right or center - can support.

You know Mike, nothing is perfect and we know that about this bill. As time goes on people will make good use of the good parts of this bill and if necessary other parts will be adjusted. People were irate over Social Security when that was passed and that debate makes this ACA look like puppy love. But Social Security is a life line to millions of Americans and you will not appreciate that until you retire. The same can be said for unemployment insurance. For those millions who have lost their jobs, those checks were invaluable. And what about Medicare, Medicare Advantage and the Prescription part D? Yes there are financial problems over the cost, but Medicare is well run from the healthcare side and provides hundreds of millions of Americans with services, Bruce makes some good points about this not being government run health-care but rather just a health-care law that makes everyone get health-care coverage.